Social Security Overpayment/ Debt add on

Hello, I have two issues. The Social Security Administration over paid me $28,900.00. I have documented information asking them to stop paying me. They actually increased payments for two years. When they finally got around to stopping payment to me, they fault me for taking money, they say I should not have taken. My attempts at discussing, arguing are in vein. They will not hear that they made the mistake of overpaying me even after submitting documents proving their inability to read, and stop paying me. Their response to any argument is I am at fault. This ended in 1998 and they have been after me since to pay them back. They attempted to garnish my wages, are ready to take my tax return.

I filed for bankruptcy in 2001, was Chapter 7 discharged in January of 2002. My overpayment was not included in the bankruptcy. Once again, out of work, debt piling on. What are the chances of having the bankruptcy court re-address this overpayment / debt I am faced with and having it discharged?  Is this type of debt Chapter 7 allowable?  I was informed it is not and did not submit this to my original bankruptcy. 

 

Thank you anyone for any input, I appreciate it. 

It looks like it has been 8 years since you filed your previous bankruptcy.  So, you are eligible to file again.

You will have to discuss with a BK attorney whether you can include this debt in your BK.

This claim is not dischargeable.  You have no defense to it, and are going to have to pay it back.

Firstly you may be able to use bankrupcy. The POMS system (laws that SS ARE SUPPOSE to use and do not) reference bankrupcy in the overpayment section. I too have been falsely accused of overpayments for 3 1/2 years and have received 7 different amounts being owed ranging from $8500 to now $19300. One letter actually stated that I would be the reciprecant of my own payment. SS has never responded to any of my letters or showed me my files at the personal conference(again another violation of POMS) I have gone through the "system" and am waiting for a hearing in front of a ALJ (Admin. Law Judge) At the begging of this month SS again threatened to withhold ALL of my benefits monies for the next 11 months. SS is the only agency in the USA that can force an individual into homelessness and under the poverty line. 6 months ago the "collection agent" at the Processing Center told me he would not touch my money until (by law) the hearing happened but he lied! So I knew he was going to lie and I went with file copies in hand as exhibits to my local Congressman. The case worker was very familar with SS and their incompetance and had a liason at the local SS office. I met with the SS agent and had $100/month withheld (even though it is illegal) until my hearing but figured better than all of it. Today I received 3 letters of withholdings from the same PC. So if I do not get the money that I agreed to I can go to the local SS office met with the agent and immediately get a check for the difference. In your case learn and read POMS under SS website and in GN (general section) explains the procedure. I would ask for a Request for Reconsideration form. Fill it out and wait for 60 days. Followup with a visit to SS if you get no answer and make sure the form is on file. Bring along another copy of the form and exhibits. Then ask for a Request for Waiver of Overpayment Recovery due to no fault of your own. SS will not find in favor of you as they have the altimate CYA statement "The first (test) is whether you made an incorrect statement or statement you should have known was incorrect.”  The third (test) is whether information you accepted payments which you either knew or could have been expected to know were incorrect.” Then ask for a Personal Conference and DEMAND to see all your files including the electronic files. When that fails file for an ALJ hearing-visit your Congreesman-document all-do a timeline with exhibits-be organized. Incidently out of my numerous internet check outs you are the first person on the Net that has addressed SS overpayments-Good Luck.

While the original post is from April, 2010, I wanted to comment on Biggie Dog's statement.  Many of the points made are just way to much info, but the original premise is correct.  Social Security overpayments are generally dischargeable in bankruptcy.  However the original post alludes to a potential finding of fraud and/or misrepresentation.  If there was such a finding then the overpayment would not be dischargeable.  Lastly, if discharged under Social Security Program Operations Manual, GN02215.185, 190, 195 & 196, and future benefits will not be reduced as a result of the discharge in bankruptcy.

Mr. Siegel is wrong.  A very nice woman I found in my new local SS office found statutes within the SS code that details, even if I did not include the overpayment in my bankruptcy, the fact that I had one, even after a disability review ruled against me and did not include overpayment in my bankruptcy, my overpayment will be dismissed as a result of my chapter 7.  She prepared a fantastic package outlining and detailing all pertinent statutes and forwarded it to SS Admin. and US Treasury. 

To B. William:

I am very glad to read that 4 months after your original post you have worked out the issue. So I gather there was no finding of fraud or misrepresentation. I did not want to get into a big discussion but if you had a no asset Chapter 7, the fact that you omitted the SSA was of no consequence since in a no asset case, forgotten creditors are discharged unless there was some sort of fraud/misrepresentation involved. This was true even back when you did your bk. The next question that begs to be asked is: Have you paid anything on the discharged debt due to the SSA's improper attempt to collect? If so, those funds need to be returned to you as the SSA violated your discharge rights.

You are fortunate that you had help but my long drawn out response (above) was due to the fact that SS continually violates its' own laws and there appears to be no one on the internet or any where else speaking up against them. As I told the Congressman's case worker if SS is going to make laws as in POMS and not follow them then get rid of the laws. I hope that a Congressional subcommitee will be called to act against SS. My plans are to move my case to Civil Court when due course is done and ask for damages against SS as well as discharging of SS overpayments. Incidently I also have a court order by a State District Court judge that states "no SS benefits will be withheld" as SS in its arrogence has told me 3 times "we do not care what a judge orders"-we will see come trial time. This may be the first time that a judge goes against SS as I cannot find a case like this.

To Biggie Dog,

I do appreciate your comments and I hope that your persistence will pay off, not only for you but for others in your situation. It is a shame with the strong arm of the government takes advantage. We sometime need whistle blowers like you to stand up for the little guy. Unfortunately, since SS is not my area of expertise (other than in the context of the bk question that was posed), I cannot comment on your cause.  I do wish you the best in your endeavors.

Biggie Dog, I wonder if you are available to answer some questions I have about my overpayment?

Sorry for the delay on responding but moved to live with my oldest son-good news 1/2 the rent-bad news living with my son. Now my concerns are do I contact SS with an adress change (so they can send me their harrassing form letters of total benefit withholdings) or wait until I receive my notification of the ALJ hearing (in December or January) then tell SS I do not live in that area anymore and I need the case transferred? What questions can I help you with?

Hi BD,

You sound as if you've been through the mill as I have and I like your analysis that they continually break their own laws......and lie a lot too.  As you can see on this site, even lawyers are of little help; they don't seem to handle our kinds of problems with SS, they seem to want only cases where they obtain benefits for people where they get a big cut of the initial payment.

I have an overpayment problem; but I also have paper work from SS that says I'm clear.  I've been waiting since 2006 for my hearing to show my proof but as of today, nothing.  My benefits stopped in August until the $60,000 is paid back......so they say.

I went in again to SS a few weeks and they said we'll schedule you right away, and I have heard nothing.  They just don't want to give me my day in court.

This is my situation right now, no benefits and no access to the courtroom.  Any suggestions?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The next part is about the bankruptcy, they told me at the SS office that if I go bankrupt that I still can't collect benefits until the amount is paid.........I think they're lying, but of course I don't know all the laws and procedures in effect.

Are you using a lawyer?  If so, how did you find a lawyer?

The lawyers I've contacted don't seem to have any experience with this; they say it's a rubber stamp you're going to lose the case.  

I offered to take less until the amount is paid back, they said the amount has to be paid within 3 years to do that; I think they're lying again.  So what they're saying is that I would not be able to pay the $60K back in three years for a lesser amount.

Do you know of a group that advocates for people like myself?

 

 

First of all you have to file a request for a Administrative Law Judge (ALJ) hearing at SS. The request form is on their website. Go to the local office and submit it and get a copy date stamped. Then ask for your benefit payments to continue while waiting for the hearing. The hearing will be at your local "ODAR" office in front of an ex-attorney considered an "expert". I would also take all of your paperwork and go to your local Congress person and ask for help. Yes the local lawyers in this field are "friends" with SS but hopefully so is your congressperson liason. Ironically this is the ONLY website that discusses SS overpayment unless others know about another one. Finally I recommend that you read POMS  regarding overpayment and negociation of overpayments. They (SS) have only 3 years to collect hence divide $60 k between 36 months and this is your payment plan. Do not send any letters to SS complaining as they will "lose" them and/or not answer them. As for the hearing expect to lose. The ALJ works for SS - whos' best interest is he in? I will wait for my monthly payment tomorrow hoping it will be put into my bank account. We (all of us) need to stop these ignorant SOB's at SS -Any further ideas or suggestions (GAO, Attorney General, Obama)? 

Thanks BG for this good info.  I've been doing some heavy thinking about what you wrote the past 24 hours.  I have filed for a request for a hearing back in July of 2008.  What I now believe is that they have no intention of giving me a hearing because they know I'm correct.

They have thrown away my file completely, there was at least 500 pages in there and it's gone.  I believe they through away my request for a hearing as well.  I do have a copy of the request and when I was last in my SS office they said it was done correctly.

I'm not sure whay you mean by POMS?