Settlement question

We had a shed fire and was a total loss. The structure was approx. 12 x 25. The slab was not to current code requirements for the rebuild and had to be removed. The slab measured 12 x 30. Is the insurance company required to pay for the 12 x 30 slab or a 12 x 25 slab?

Also, The Examiner is using shed measurements (12 x 18) noted on a land survey completed 34 years ago. I dispute the survey measurements. I found and measured my sheds roofline on Google Earth. The roofline measurement is over 4 feet longer than what is noted on the survey. Could I possibly use this as leverage in negostiations?

Thanks!

csonrxdi:

Is the insurance company required to pay for the 12 x 30 slab or a 12 x 25 slab?

The slab was evidently not damaged in the fire. It was removed because it didn't meet Code, and the insurance company is not liable to pay for that if the policy is written like most standard liability insurance policies. The fact that it was not up to code is likely on you. Read your policy to see what the company is liable to pay for. If nothing in the policy would cover the slab, you're out-of-luck.

csonrxdi:

I dispute the survey measurements. I found and measured my sheds roofline on Google Earth. The roofline measurement is over 4 feet longer than what is noted on the survey. Could I possibly use this as leverage in negostiations?

Assuming that your measurements are accurate, perhaps. I don't know how accurate the measurement can be off the Google earth image the shed; the margin of error on that would be a potential problem. Also there is a possibility that the roofline was longer than the floor of the shed depending on the shed design.

I do know of one guy whose street savy lawyer got him a very satisfactory settlement on a replacement value policy when they addressed the costs of replacement CHESTNUT beams......and NY slate 

Are there any details of your shed that might be unique and is replacement cost addressed?

Double check your policy language re code requirements with skilled counsel---I've heard of such issues going either way--and there may be some devil in the details.

It would help to know what kind of policy you have. Homeowners? Commercial? What form number for the property coverage?

Did the examiner send an adjuster out to inspect after the fire but before any debris was removed. Should have been fairly easy to determine the dimensions of the shed in a variety of ways depending on how the building was built.

As for using Google Earth, all you can do is submit it to the examiner and see what happens.

Your situation makes a good argument for keeping careful records (photos and diagrams with dimensions) of your property.

My homeowners policy is a Form 3. A contracted adjuster came out and basicly only verified that the shed and it's contents were a total loss. She took no measurements of anything and took very few photos. I've taken 2 dozen photos and always keep good records. This claim, which I feel is very small in scope, is now 4 months old. It seems that they are taking "baby steps" and stalling the process. The Exaiminer, whom I've talked with weekly from the beginning, has not taken the advice of the Adjuster in any part of the claim and has repeatedly rejected the Adjusters work for further clairifaction. The Adjuster has 2 years field experience. Now going into winter I have no storage shed for my yard equipment and cannot use my garage for it's intended purpose. Could I demand that the insurer pay for temporary storage? This claim process has truely been very stressful. Would it be beneficial or a waste of time to file a complaint with the state insurance commissioner? FYI - The Examiner had told me of her intent to also take a roofline measurement but then changed her mind after discovering a 34 year old property survey.

Thanks!

Taxagent Lawyer - Thank you for your reply. Your correct that the slab was not damaged. My policy (Form 3) states that the insurer pays for code related issues and after a 3 week battle to justify the removal of the 40 year old slab the insurer did pay for it's removal. The slab was not up to current code and not suitable to rebuild on, therefore I also lost a 12 x 30 slab.

csonrxdi:

My homeowners policy is a Form 3

OK. There's a few things you need to know about the Form 3:

1 - The slab would have been covered had it been damaged by the fire, if it had to be replaced because of that damage.

2 - The policy has limited coverage for complying with local codes but that only applies to the dwelling (Coverage A) and not to other structures (Coverage B). See Additional Coverages - Ordinance or Law.

3 - Loss of Use does not cover not being able to store your equipment. See Coverage D - Loss of Use. You can demand it, but you won't get it.

csonrxdi:

Would it be beneficial or a waste of time to file a complaint with the state insurance commissioner?

The process for filing a complaint is this: You file the complaint, the insurance department sends a letter to claims management asking "What's this about?", the insurance company sends back a letter explaining what it's about, more often than not the insurance department accepts the explanation and sends you a letter saying they aren't doing anything wrong. Fire claims often take a while because they are fire claims. That being said, it doesn't hurt to file the complaint because complaints make management nervous and it might get your claim looked at with a fresh set of eyes.

There is something else you can do, though.

Find the Section I - Conditions part of your policy and read the Appraisal provision. It'll look something like this:

• Appraisal
• If you and we fail to agree on the amount of loss, either may demand an appraisal of the loss. In this event, each party will choose a competent and impartial appraiser within 20 days after receiving a written request from the other. The two appraisers will choose an umpire. If they cannot agree upon an umpire within 15 days, you or we may request that the choice be made by a judge of a court of record in the state where the "residence premises" is located. The appraisers will separately set the amount of loss. If the appraisers submit a written report of an agreement to us, the amount agreed upon will be the amount of loss. If they fail to agree, they will submit their differences to the umpire. A decision agreed to by any two will set the amount of loss.
• Each party will:
•      1.  Pay its own appraiser; and
  
•      2.  Bear the other expenses of the appraisal and umpire equally.

You are likely to get better results if you invoke the Appraisal provision (in writing) to your examiner and appoint a local contractor as your appraiser.

Saw this after the above:

csonrxdi:

My policy (Form 3) states that the insurer pays for code related issues and after a 3 week battle to justify the removal of the 40 year old slab the insurer did pay for it's removal. The slab was not up to current code and not suitable to rebuild on, therefore I also lost a 12 x 30 slab.

Did they pay just for the removal or to replace the slab. Not clear from your post.

Thank you Jack - The insurer paid for the slab removal and it sounds like they plan to pay for replacement. The slab size that they will pay for is the current issue at hand. I'm currently fighting for the slab replacement being what it was, a 12 x 30 slab which was my orignal question in this post. The slab removal was a major issue and I began to think they were not going to pay for it's removal.

Let me ask you something. I've received a report from GeoEstimator with my shed measurements. With the roof pitch being what it was (8/12) it allowed for ample storage above. With that in mind the available sqfootage is larger than if only calculating sqfootage by the shed dimensions (L x W). Would it be realistic for me to demand payment based upon sqf rather than by it's dimensions?

csonrxdi:

Let me ask you something. I've received a report from GeoEstimator with my shed measurements. With the roof pitch being what it was (8/12) it allowed for ample storage above. With that in mind the available sqfootage is larger than if only calculating sqfootage by the shed dimensions (L x W). Would it be realistic for me to demand payment based upon sqf rather than by it's dimensions?

No, it wouldn't be realistic because that's not the way building costs are computed (and you just flat wouldn't get it). Building costs are computed by the length and width of the building, the height of the walls and the pitch of the roof. Those dimensions combine to compute the amount of materials and labor needed to construct the building.

It requires considerably more materials and labor to build an 8/12 roof than it does to build a 4/12 roof. You can visualize that, right?

So the 8/12 roof computation automatically adjusts for the additional storage area available without having to add the square footage of that storage area.

Thank you for your comments Jack.

csonrxdi:

I recieved a check for my burned down shed. The insurer sent me a check for the structure without comfirming with me anything relating to the structure. I have not even seen the adjusters report. I dispute this payment. My question is, if I cash this check will I waive my right to dispute my claim? The check has no mention of full and final payment.

Thanks!

My feeling has always been that there is always the possibility for a supplemental payment on a first party property claim because I was bound by contract to pay my policyholder the proper amount of money to cover his loss.

And if I didn't pay the proper amount for whatever reason I would still be obliged to pay an additional amount if need be.

If you haven't signed a "proof of loss" form or a release, you are free to cash the check and continue your dispute, either through the insurance department or through the Appraisal provision.

If your claim rep gives you a hard time about cashing the check, just remind him about his company's contractual obligations to properly cover your loss regardless of how much the initial payment was.

Jack I understand that. This whole claim process has been pathetic at best. First I get stuck with an incompetent Adjuster who failed to bring a contractor or even take measurements of anything initially or during the demo and cleanup. The Adjuster also supposedly made other numerous mistakes. My contractor submitted measurements and other related information to them and the insurer disputes all of it. The insurer gets a hold of a property survey dated July 1977 and calls that "confirmation" of the structure size. Meanwhile I get a roof line measurement from a trusted source which contradicts the 1977 survey and they don't consider it. Their is no way to know for sure if the measurements on the 1977 survey were in fact that of a structure or just a slab or a different structure entirely. As a side note, the slab and structure were different sizes. Their were actually 3 slabs removed totaling 24" thick.

I just want what I am rightfully entitled to collect so that I can move on with life.  I feel like I am being stepped on and should probably have a lawyer in my corner. Why should I have to pay out, weather it's to a lawyer or by invoking the Appraisal provision just to recover what I am entitled to? I lost a shed. A large and very basic shed. I understand insurance company's don't play fair but goddamn.

Thanks for reading my rant. I'm at my wits end.

csonrxdi:

I'm at my wits end.

Is there a reason you are talking lawyer instead of appraisal?

I feel that they may be riding a fine line between poor service and "bad faith". I plan to use all options available with legal options being a last resort.

Can I invoke the Appraisal provision and appoint myself "Appraiser" or "Contractor"?