Workers' Comp "Mistake" led to my Uncle's Suicide

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Latest post 08-10-2011 2:46 AM by Taxagent. 17 replies.
  • 08-05-2011 10:08 AM

    • Gina7169
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    Workers' Comp "Mistake" led to my Uncle's Suicide

    On August 2nd, my Uncle hung himself in his back yard due to the fact that his unemployment benefits had run out and he was about to be evicted and had no where to go.  However, when his best friend went to his apartment to get his things, there was a letter there from the Unemployment Agency stating that they made a mistake and starting August 6th, my Uncle would be reinstated and his back pay distributed to him.

    I feel this mistake is directly related to his hanging himself.

    My questions are:

    1.  What are our options in terms of us getting his back pay (up to August 2) so that we may offset the cremation costs which my father, who is on a fixed income, paid via his home equity.  Any monies left over from reimbursing him for the cremation costs would go to either taking care of my Uncle's dog or setting up a college trust for one of his neices/nephews.

    2.  What about the employee who made the mistake.  I feel like I want to take my Uncle's death certificate, go to the agency, stand in front of the employee's desk and say "This is what your mistake cost my Uncle and his family/friends.  Do you want to do your job better now?"  Could that be considered harrassment of the employee?

    3.  How can I find out exactly when they realized their mistake and how long they postponed sending him the letter notifying him of the reinstatement?  I don't trust them to tell me the truth, but I also cannot afford a lawyer to go with me to help me spot the lies (if any).

    By-the-way, this all happened in Maryland.

    Thank you in advance for your assistance with my questions.  Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

  • 08-05-2011 10:17 AM In reply to

    Re: Workers' Comp "Mistake" led to my Uncle's Suicide

    Gina7169:

    I feel this mistake is directly related to his hanging himself.

    Your feelings are irrelevant.

    Your uncle's suicide was not the result of the mistake, it was the result of being mentally unsound.

    He had other choices besides suicide.

    People get denied benefits every day (mistake or not) and don't kill themselves.

    As for getting the money up to the time of his death, the UI agency should be able to pay it to his estate. The executor or personal representative of the estate is the one to handle that but will need his court papers to do it.

    That takes care of Item 1.

    You can forget about 2 and 3.

    You've got nowhere to go with blaming anybody else.

    • The right of the people 
    • to keep and bear arms,
    • shall not be infringed.
  • 08-05-2011 10:50 AM In reply to

    • LG81
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    Re: Workers' Comp "Mistake" led to my Uncle's Suicide

    I am sorry for your loss.  I cannot even imagine the healing that needs to take place after a person takes his own life.  When we lose loved ones, the grief process is tough in itself, but I am sure it's compounded exponentially with suicides, including doubts and feelings of guilt that you should not place on yourself.  I am a strong believer that action is a powerful thing, but I think your actions are better chanelled into healing and serving as a support system for your family.  Check into whether the back benefits can be distributed to the estate, but focus the rest of your energy on other things (blaming the agency will get you nowhere - neither in healing nor legally).

    I agree with Adjuster Jack's response, with one exception.  He did have other choices.  It's probable that his mental illness sank so far that he believed it was the only option, but that is not the responsibility of the unemployment agency.

  • 08-05-2011 11:09 AM In reply to

    Re: Workers' Comp "Mistake" led to my Uncle's Suicide

    LG81:
    I agree with Adjuster Jack's response, with one exception.  He did have other choices.

    ?

    I wrote that he had other choices.

    • The right of the people 
    • to keep and bear arms,
    • shall not be infringed.
  • 08-05-2011 11:22 AM In reply to

    • LG81
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    Re: Workers' Comp "Mistake" led to my Uncle's Suicide

    adjuster jack:

    I wrote that he had other choices.

    Whoops - sorry - for some dumb reason, I had read that he did not have other choices (which is not what you wrote).

     

  • 08-05-2011 11:28 AM In reply to

    Re: Workers' Comp "Mistake" led to my Uncle's Suicide

    My condolences on the loss of your Uncle.

    Gina7169:
    I feel this mistake is directly related to his hanging himself.

    You need to understand that when people commit suicide, they have mental health issues that needed to be addressed. Most people experiencing hard times don't kill themselves. It's not rational behavior. While he may have perceived the termination of benefits as the trigger to kill himself, if he was suicidal, if the unemployment hadn't been the trigger, something else would have been. Moreover, unemployment benefits don't last forever. Eventually they'd have run out and he'd have been in the same spot. I understand that the family wants someone to blame other than the Uncle for this. I lost a friend to suicide, and I know that emotion. But, hard as it is to accept, your uncle is the only person responsible here. A simple mistake on benefits is not the true cause of his death.

    Gina7169:
    1.  What are our options in terms of us getting his back pay (up to August 2) so that we may offset the cremation costs which my father, who is on a fixed income, paid via his home equity.  Any monies left over from reimbursing him for the cremation costs would go to either taking care of my Uncle's dog or setting up a college trust for one of his neices/nephews.

    Your uncles estate would be able to pursue money owed to him. Whoever is the personal representative of the estate is the one to take care of that. If your uncle had no will, who gets his estate assets after payment of his debts will be determined by state intestacy law.

    Gina7169:
    2.  What about the employee who made the mistake.  I feel like I want to take my Uncle's death certificate, go to the agency, stand in front of the employee's desk and say "This is what your mistake cost my Uncle and his family/friends.  Do you want to do your job better now?"  Could that be considered harrassment of the employee?

    You assume it's a mistake by a person rather than a computer glitch or something else. But let's assume you can identify a particular employee who made the mistake. That employee made a simple error. He or she likely didn't intend to make that mistake and certainly didn't intend that your uncle would commit suicide because of it. His/her mistake was not the direct cause of death, like it would be if he caused an accident that killed your uncle. Have you NEVER made a mistake in your job? Are you telling me you are PERFECT? If the answers to those questions are no, as they will be if you're honest, then tell me how you'd feel if someone came up to you because of some mistake you made and blamed you for someone's suicide? Are you really the kind of person that would want to upset someone over a simple non-injury mistake just to try to make yourself feel better?

    Again, your uncle was the cause of his suicide, as a result of whatever mental issues he had going on. It's tragic, but not that employee's fault. Rational people don't commit suicide over stuff like this. Confronting this employee won't bring back your uncle, very likely won't ease your sorrow or make you feel any better, and could come back to cause you problems.

    Gina7169:
    3.  How can I find out exactly when they realized their mistake and how long they postponed sending him the letter notifying him of the reinstatement?  I don't trust them to tell me the truth, but I also cannot afford a lawyer to go with me to help me spot the lies (if any).

    Realistically, you can't. You have no cause of action against the agency for this, and there is no obligation of the agency to give you any information about it. You are assuming, perhaps because of your grief, ill intent on the part of the agency to delibrately delay correcting the mistake once it learned of it. But you don't have any FACTS to suggest that's true.

    I'm sorry for the loss you've suffered. But you are directing your anger in the wrong direction here. The UI compensation office isn't responsible for your uncle's death. As hard as it is to accept, any "blame" for that rests solely with whatever mental problems your uncle suffered from.

  • 08-05-2011 11:55 AM In reply to

    • Gina7169
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    Re: Workers' Comp "Mistake" led to my Uncle's Suicide

    I AM IN NO WAY STATING THAT I AM PERFECT!!!!!!!!!  Only GOD is perfect!!!!!!

    However, I am not in a job where my actions directly effect a persons financial wellbeing either.  If it was a computer glitch, we have all suffered from that in some point in our life.  However, if it was a lazy worker not paying attention - maybe knowing that their "mistakes" could have contributory tragic consequences. In other words, the straw that broke the camel's back. 

    Yes, my Uncle may have had issues that he kept well hidden from friends and family.  And yes, I am well aware that he is the only one who put the rope around his neck.

    In this climate of economic disaster (so to speak), people in position of controlling other's monies MUST take the extra care necessary to make sure everything is correct.

  • 08-05-2011 12:06 PM In reply to

    Re: Workers' Comp "Mistake" led to my Uncle's Suicide

    I'm very sorry for your loss. However, WC is not responsible for your uncle's decision to kill himself. Clearly he DID have somewhere to go as he had friends and family.

    It is possible that your Uncle's estate could collect UC that was due to him. Harassing the employee you *think* made the mistake is a foolish waste of time. By your own admission it was an error - not an intentional act. Haveyou never made a mistake?

  • 08-05-2011 12:18 PM In reply to

    • LG81
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    Re: Workers' Comp "Mistake" led to my Uncle's Suicide

    Gina7169:

    However, I am not in a job where my actions directly effect a persons financial wellbeing either.  If it was a computer glitch, we have all suffered from that in some point in our life.  However, if it was a lazy worker not paying attention - maybe knowing that their "mistakes" could have contributory tragic consequences. In other words, the straw that broke the camel's back. 

    Gina7169:

    In this climate of economic disaster (so to speak), people in position of controlling other's monies MUST take the extra care necessary to make sure everything is correct.

    In any economic climate, it is important for folks to act prudently when dealing with other people's compensation or monies.  However, even the most prudent and hard-working person in the world can make a mistake. 

    Furthermore, due to the current economic climate, many UI offices are severely understaffed.  (and I state this despite my conservative belief that many governmental agencies are inefficient)  In my state, the agency that oversees unemployment compensation has already -- for several years -- had issues with people trying to call in and not even being able to get into the queue.  Once finally in the queue, a person would wait up to two hours for the call to get answered.  Recently, due to budget constraints (and most every state has significant budget issues), ten percent of the workforce was laid off despite the fact the agency was already constrained.

    There was also another post on here recently about a claimant in a different state.  The rules had changed, but there was a glitch in implementation that caused an intial denial.  After diligent attempts, the OP's spouse was able to get it resolved.  Your uncle had the option to work diligently to resolve the issue.  Unfortunately, his mental illness apparently inhibited his ability to do so, but that is still not the state's fault.

    All of this to say, please focus on what you can do.  You can seek that the estate receive any unpaid benefits.  You can seek counseling, enroll in a grief class, or join a support group for loved ones of suicides. Anger towards the agency will not benefit you or your loved ones.  You also have no legal recourse for the fact that your uncle took his own life.

     

  • 08-05-2011 6:59 PM In reply to

    • Gina7169
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    Re: Workers' Comp "Mistake" led to my Uncle's Suicide

    @LynnM:

    Yes I have made mistakes as have you.  My mistake today was trning to this message board.

  • 08-05-2011 7:02 PM In reply to

    • Gina7169
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    Re: Workers' Comp "Mistake" led to my Uncle's Suicide

    @LG81

    You are assuming that my Uncle didn't fight them. 

  • 08-05-2011 7:15 PM In reply to

    Re: Workers' Comp "Mistake" led to my Uncle's Suicide

    I am really sorry for your loss.  I can only imagine how tragic that must be.

    Unfortunately, in a legal way, I think you actually got some pretty good suggestions here.

    I don't blame you for being mad about the entire thing.  I think we all get mad over these things and look for reasons it happened.

    However, there's just no way to know how it exactly happened.  It's really unfortunate that the mistake was not caught sooner.

    Sadly, however, this is not going to change what's already happened.

    Good luck!

     

     

  • 08-05-2011 7:31 PM In reply to

    Re: Workers' Comp "Mistake" led to my Uncle's Suicide

    If you did not want an accurate answer, I guess it was a mistake. Would you rather we lied to you?

  • 08-05-2011 7:36 PM In reply to

    Re: Workers' Comp "Mistake" led to my Uncle's Suicide

    Gina7169:
    I feel this mistake is directly related to his hanging himself.

    Perhaps but more likely is that the cumalitve effects of the long term effects of the job loss, not being able to find another job, pending eviction, pending loss of UI benefits (which are not permanent) and major depression all contribtuted to his suicide.

    Gina7169:
    1.  What are our options in terms of us getting his back pay

    His estate is likely entitled to the back pay that he is owed.  How you choose to use it is up to you.

    Gina7169:
    I feel like I want to take my Uncle's death certificate, go to the agency, stand in front of the employee's desk and say "This is what your mistake cost my Uncle and his family/friends.  Do you want to do your job better now?"

    The odds on finding the a "specific" employee responsible for the error are slim to none.  You are talking about a bureaucratic machine that operates on multiple levels and computers.  It surely was not done intentionally.  You can't possibly believe that someone was sitting at their desk, saw your uncle's file and thought "I will withhold this guy's benefits and watch him take his life!" just for amusement and then let it happen do you?  Even IF you knew which employee(s) were involved since you are not the claimant they are likely not going to discuss the case with you and since he has now died if you are not the executor they can't discuss the matter either.  Add to that if you are threatening litigation or just plain threatening they won't discuss anything with you.

    Gina7169:
    Could that be considered harrassment of the employee?

    Yes, and no agency will allow you to enter their facility and do it.  Even if you got to see someone they would have security escort you out quickly.

    Everyone here gets it, the pain and anger from losing someone to suicide makes no sense.  I am sorry you lost him but NO matter how hard you try and find an answer you aren't likely to EVER get a satisfactory one.  Even if you go down to the UI folks and find Betty Farkelson and she apologizes it isn't going to right the wrong or rationalize.it.  They say that suicide is the cruelest form of death because it leaves the family with more questions than answers.  Unfortunately in this case the law isn't going to be able to provide a remedy for you in the courts.  The best suggestion I can make is there are support groups for survivors of suicide that might be helpful.  

     

    "That's just my opinion, then again I might be wrong."  Dennis Miller

     

  • 08-05-2011 9:42 PM In reply to

    • Gina7169
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    Re: Workers' Comp "Mistake" led to my Uncle's Suicide

    @LynnM

    No, not looking for lies.   Just lashing out.

    Yes, I do understand that my Uncle is the ultimate one to blame.  I just expect more of people.  Not to mention that some on here seem to assume that I think I am perfect.  I do not think I am perfect, and I don't go around telling people that I am perfect.

    Thank you to everyone for the advice regarding his back pay owed to him.  And thank you to the person who mentioned the understaffed office.  I'll try that excuse the next time I make an error on my job.  However,I don't see my boss buying that as an excuse.

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